2011-01-072011-01-072000Dreyer, Y 2000, 'Refleksie op twee pastorale modelle, Deel 2 : Die pastor as luisteraar - die storiemodel', HTS Teologiese Studies/ Theological Studies, vol. 56, no. 1, pp. 174-191.0259-9422 (print)http://hdl.handle.net/2263/15523Spine cut of Journal binding and pages scanned on flatbed EPSON Expression 10000 XL; 400dpi; text/lineart - black and white - stored to Tiff Derivation: Abbyy Fine Reader v.9 work with PNG-format (black and white); Photoshop CS3; Adobe Acrobat v.9 Web display format PDFThis study focuses on pastoral interaction with women. Pastoral care and counselling with women takes place within hierarchical societal and church structures. In such societies those higher up in the hierarchy exercise power over others. The male perspective has been the dominant one. This article is a critical description and evaluation of Julian Muller's narrative model for pastoral counselling. The premise of this model is that identity and story are related. This forms part of what is known in a broader context as the hermeneutics of conversation. In pastoral interaction the life stories of people are associated or disassociated with stories in the Bible. The article pleads for symmetrical interaction in pastoral counselling. This means that women should not be sold out to patriarchal na"atives in the Bible that devalue them. Contra-narratives in the Bible according to which women have equal access to God could play an important role in pastoral interaction.AfrikaansFaculty of Theology, University of PretoriaPastoral interactionModel of encounteringHermeneutical modelPastoral carePastoral counselingNarrative therapyChurch work with womenFeminist theologyPastoral theologyArticle